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Author Topic: US Debt  (Read 5593 times)

Offline Valjean

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US Debt
« on: November 28, 2012, 08:11:05 AM »
I notice, although its not been anywhere in the news, that the America's national debt is almost to the debt ceiling it was raised to in 2011.  We're all talk about the fiscal cliff, but unless Congress also votes to raise the debt ceiling ... well the US credit rating will go down yet again.

I for one would very much like to live in a country where the national debt isn't $50,000 per person... since that's some 35% higher than Greece.  And we see what state they ended up in.  Unfortunately enough of my countrymen keep forgetting this and voting Democrat.  (whip)

Offline TheDandyManCan

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Re: US Debt
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2012, 02:47:40 PM »
I dunno how to respond to this thread. I agree, I guess? It's hard to disagree. That's like saying I support Satan. Anyway, I'd rather hope that Obama will set straight the economic situation, rather than seethe and moan about him being in the position to do so.

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Offline Valjean

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Re: US Debt
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2012, 04:19:03 PM »
Oh is not at all like saying you worship satan.  There are allot of people in favor of stimulating the economy through government spending.  Its called Keynesian economics, and a major school of thought in how to get an economy to recover.

I don't personally agree with it, but since you use Obama as an example he's very much a Keynesian.  He's increased the debt the second most of any US president as a percentage and by far the most in sheer dollar amount.  But for all those trillions i don't personally feel we've seen a simulative effect on the economy to justify it but a great many people disagree. 
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 04:25:20 PM by Valjean »

Offline TheDandyManCan

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Re: US Debt
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2012, 05:44:01 PM »
No, I mean to say I disagree would be to say I WANT the economy to buttfuck itself. It's sort of a unanimous and absolute standpoint every American ought to have. If you don't want your country to prosper, well.... what's that about?

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Offline TWO iRiShHiPpY

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Re: US Debt
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2012, 09:43:54 PM »
No, I mean to say I disagree would be to say I WANT the economy to buttfuck itself. It's sort of a unanimous and absolute standpoint every American ought to have. If you don't want your country to prosper, well.... what's that about?

Because maybe what prospers is bullshit.  New fungii on the cowpie of absurdity.  Wo0t.
ZEPPELIN RULES


Offline Cheese

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Re: US Debt
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2012, 10:52:00 PM »
No, I mean to say I disagree would be to say I WANT the economy to buttfuck itself. It's sort of a unanimous and absolute standpoint every American ought to have. If you don't want your country to prosper, well.... what's that about?

Because maybe what prospers is bullshit.  New fungii on the cowpie of absurdity.  Wo0t.

A country as a whole prospering is different than corporations prospering. Unless you mean humanity is the cowpie... than... well...

Offline Valjean

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Re: US Debt
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2012, 09:10:28 AM »
A country as a whole prospering is different than corporations prospering.

That perception is why I think corporations shouldn't even be taxed.  Corporations don't make a profit, people make a profit.  The very notion that all the money flows to some mysterious, invisible "big corporation" is just plain wrong.  A corporation is just a few pieces of paper in a hanging file folder. 

All profits go to individual people.

All taxes are paid by individual people.

Any profit your told goes to a corporation, or any bill you're ever told can be paid for by a corporation is really being paid for by only 1 of 2 groups: either the employees of that corporation in the form of reduced salary & benefits, or the person who owns shares of that company through, say a mutual fund, in the form of a smaller return on where they invested their money.

Offline Ucah8er

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Re: US Debt
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2012, 11:23:33 AM »
Greece fucked itself by messing with their papers and with some of their big companies faking their gains. It's a real pity for the common people over there.

I think the US will get themselves out of this eventually. It ain't the first economic crisis that country has been through and you guys have done pretty well back in the days.

Offline bamm_1

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Re: US Debt
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2012, 05:48:24 AM »
Greece fucked itself by messing with their papers and with some of their big companies faking their gains. It's a real pity for the common people over there.

I think the US will get themselves out of this eventually. It ain't the first economic crisis that country has been through and you guys have done pretty well back in the days.
I'd like to think so but 17 trillion is an inconceivable amount of loot.
I think I'm going crazy

Offline TheDandyManCan

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Re: US Debt
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2012, 10:34:47 AM »
We could always just pawn our Chinese clocks off and make the money that way.

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Offline godzilliac

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Re: US Debt
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2012, 10:38:33 AM »
This may come as a bold statement but it's not in America's interest to pay off it's debt. It's actually one of the reasons America hasn't gone into hyperinflation, as ironic as it may seem. See, as long as China holds trillions of dollars of American debt, it's not in China's interest to see the American economy go bankrupt. An American bankruptcy would mean that all the American debt that China is holding now would vaporize into thin air. So in a way you could say that America is also holding China into a stranglehold. The Chinese can't convert their dollars into other currency either because in doing so the value of the dollar would quickly decrease and the Chinese would loose money on that too.

Should America however pay off it's debt to China, then China would be less dependent on how the American economy is doing. That would open possibilities to undermine the position of the dollar. Nowadays the US dollar is the the international currency in the oil trade. If let's say the yuan would become the international currency for oil trade, national banks all over the world would massively convert their dollars into yuans. Thus creating a hyperinflation for the US economy while China wouldn't suffer from it since they already received their debt payments.

This is a somewhat simplified scenario of course. If national banks would massively sell their dollars, then they too would loose money on that. A strong yuan would also mean that China's export would suffer from it. But still. it's something to think about imo.

Offline Valjean

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Re: US Debt
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2012, 12:26:07 PM »
A strong yuan would also mean that China's export would suffer from it.

Suffer more.  Exports are a net loss on the Chinese economy, last numbers I saw were 2010 they accounted for -4.5% of the economy.  The Chinese actually subsidize their loss on exports from other areas of their economy.... its not sound economics but when you behave hyper-protectionist that's what you get.  Without even looking to compare I can bet Hong Kong isn't seeing that same problem.

Offline rdeyd1 573

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« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 06:29:33 PM by rdeyd1 573 »
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquence;it is force! Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."  -George Washington

There are two kinds of fascist: fascist and anti-fascist

Offline Valjean

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Re: US Debt
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2013, 10:15:36 AM »
India will rule us all someday.  Appears they actually have politicians who understand math. 

American debt is presently 105% of GDP.  The head of India's Reserve Bank (their version of the head of the Federal Reserve) just made this announcement:  "Current account deficit is unsustainable at its present level of about 5% of GDP.  A deficit of about 2.5% of GDP would be sustainable."

We welcome your arrival mathematically savvy Indian overlords.  Please begin your invasion in California, they need the help the most.  (seedy)


Offline CyborgNinjaCowboy

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Re: US Debt
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2013, 04:41:20 PM »
Democracy needs to go away for the problem to be fixed.
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Offline Valjean

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Re: US Debt
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2013, 05:10:50 PM »
Democracy needs to go away for the problem to be fixed.

Free market economies created freedom-based political systems, which in turn created the greatest increase in standard of living in human history. 

Tyrannical political systems, amplified when combined with socialist (anti-freedom) economies, have created the worst standards of living in human history.

So that begs the question about democracy as to what would you replace it with?

Offline Cheese

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Re: US Debt
« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2013, 06:57:15 PM »
Democracy needs to go away for the problem to be fixed.

Free market economies created freedom-based political systems, which in turn created the greatest increase in standard of living in human history. 

Tyrannical political systems, amplified when combined with socialist (anti-freedom) economies, have created the worst standards of living in human history.

So that begs the question about democracy as to what would you replace it with?

A theocracy worshiping Satan.

Offline Beholla_220

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Re: US Debt
« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2013, 08:03:03 PM »
Obama is currently supporting a 100 million bill to lasso an asteroid to bring into moons orbit to study, while making plans to cut social security, if that says anything about debt and priorities...

:p

Offline Cheese

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Re: US Debt
« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2013, 08:05:34 PM »
Obama is currently supporting a 100 million bill to lasso an asteroid to bring into moons orbit to study, while making plans to cut social security, if that says anything about debt and priorities...

I don't know anything about this project, but 100 million is a bit low for any space program.

Offline Valjean

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Re: US Debt
« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2013, 08:39:07 PM »
Obama is currently supporting a 100 million bill to lasso an asteroid to bring into moons orbit to study, while making plans to cut social security, if that says anything about debt and priorities...

All government spending is full of waste.  Obama isn't even aware of that program id bet you anything.  Also Obama is the most socialist president we've ever had, he's not going to make a single cut to social security much less any government program.   He's spent more on debt then every other president before him combined.