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Author Topic: The most important problem here  (Read 1287 times)

Offline the GUN runnerr

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The most important problem here
« on: February 15, 2013, 08:18:21 PM »
The economy.  Where do I start.  Well its easy for me because there is 1 single most important problem.  I dont care how it can be solved because we arent going to do anything about it any way.  I think its because we cant.  Every issue that everyone of you has that is economy based you have already been programmed to overlook.  Lets just take my line of work(everything that has to do with the automobille)as an example.  You know, the thing you cant live with out.

Im looking at a pen on my desk right now.  Im thinking that pen was completed in the factory laying there ready to be sold for 10cents(cost) say............10yrs ago.  Then that pen is boxed up and shiped to the distribution center.  Then that pen is shiped to Wal Mart. Then you get in your car and drive to walmart and buy the pen for 1 dollar.  Thats how money is made for the pen company.  But wait, they didnt make 90cents on it 10 years ago.  Well just say they made 50cents.  Why? cost of shipping.  Today the the initial cost of the pen would be what.......20cents and reatailed for a 150.  Pen company would make 40cents.  How do they charge more and make less?  ON A FUCKING PEN. 

Have you guys noticed your gallon of milk went up 2 god damn dollars in the past couple of years!  You could go on and on and on....  Point is it cost money to ship these products.  ALOT OF MONEY.  Now how the hell is the pen company gonna make money when they have to pay the shipping company a 30-40% increase and sell it for the same price?  Well, the shipping company has to increase his rates to.  Dont blame the truck driver, dont blame the pen company and dont blame wal mart. 

Gas prices shot up and it was a huge panic for a little while.  we were importing junk battery powered hybrids and trying things like ethonol sytems that alot of people wish they never invested in.  Today, we drive to the pump and get a gallon for 4 fucking dollars.  Go inside and get a candy bar for 2 fucking dollars!  And what do we do......Go to work and maybe bitch about it a little.  You are so use to these prices that you forgot that you didnt have to pay like this in recent past and you really dont care.  Im trying to tell you why YOUR BROKE!  FOSSIL FUEL PRICES! 

Here is one for the dumb shit environmentalist out there.  We cant burn this fuel because of the toxins right?  So lets go with solar powered or battery powerd cars.  You know this dumb ass hodgie you guys call a president is trying to put forth policies to instill this way of thinking.  Get rid of fuel burners.  Well he has no problem keeping the cost of fuel at the gas pump ant these insane prices in order for you to quit buying (refuse) gas and purchase his hybrid, all the while makeing you broke and the fuel investors rich.

Like i said, we cant do anything about it.  were to worried about other piss ass policies and shit that doesnt allow you to pay your rent.  How the fuck is the guy that works at mcdonalds gonna pay his bills when gas is 5$ a gallon and he makes 7$ an hour.  HE CANT!  Well ok, then lets just figure out a way to form a policy that takes some money away from the guy next to him and give it to him.  We dont need all this other shit in the economy.  Things dont have to cost so much. And your not going to walk to work and the truck driver isnt going to deliver the pen on a bike.  No, your going to keep going to the pump.


Offline floofgoofer

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Re: The most important problem here
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2013, 09:10:43 PM »
If we didn't need to send our money to the Middle East for oil that would be as good a start as any I suppose.  There are more benefits to alternative fuels than just the dumb shit environmentalists wanting breathable air.  But on the subject of air quality (and regulation protecting said quality) go ask those people in Beijing how it feels to wear breathing masks to ride their bike to work. 

Yeah you could get a cheaper pen, and a cheaper hamburger, and a cheaper set of 24s,  but maybe consumerism is the problem.  Outpacing resources will always make the price go higher, eventually we are going to run out of resources.  Eventually. Even having, underpaid, overworked fingers in Asia making our bits and bobs wont keep the price down at your local big box store.

tl;dr buy local

Offline godzilliac

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Re: The most important problem here
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2013, 09:18:36 AM »
Our current economic system requires growth. A decrease or even stagnation in demand means negative stock values. Negative stock values means less investments. Thus the economy as a whole will shrink. The fact that resources by definition are limited means that sustained growth cannot be guaranteed.

Therefore the future lies with recycling. Recycling materials is already becoming increasingly important. But even recycling requires input of limited resources such as energy. Thus renewable energy would be one way of keeping production costs affordable and yet meet with the requirement of increasing demand. Recycling waste and renewable energy together also helps to decrease pollution which in turn also reduces the cost of waste management and environmental problems.

Looks too good to be true, no?

Offline Valjean

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Re: The most important problem here
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2013, 10:23:50 AM »
Well let's define where our economy doesn't need.

We don't need a President who's dream for America (as taken straight from his own State of the Union speech) is to try and lure back manufacturing jobs that went out of country.  His dream is for our children to all be working in a union manufacturing plant making batteries for green energy cars.  Of course we lost all these manufacturing jobs to other countries because labor was too expensive in America.  But Obama believes he can bring them back by jacking the minimum wage up $2, growing union presence to argue for even higher wages & benefits, then on top of that adding a huge payroll expense on top through Obamacare. 

Yeah good luck with that.  When you get back to reality call Valjean and I'll square you away on what we actually can do that would work.

Offline godzilliac

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Re: The most important problem here
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2013, 11:33:57 AM »
Union membership actually went down from 11.8 % to 11.3 % under Obama's presidency. Likewise we should have seen an unemployment drop of 0.5 %. Unemployment levels are now back to where they stood at the beginning of Obama's first term but are rising again.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/oct/07/us-jobless-unemployment-data

Offline floofgoofer

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Re: The most important problem here
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2013, 12:19:46 PM »
O_o   nothing was ever here.... move along
« Last Edit: February 16, 2013, 12:35:24 PM by floofgoofer »

Offline Valjean

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Re: The most important problem here
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2013, 01:27:42 PM »
Union membership has been in decline for some 80 years.  Obama has put in place policies to encourage a resurgence of unions including forcing union vote drives into government agencies.  Seriously, we're so desperate to say unions ate coming back that we're trying to unionize government employees???  Of course he's failed to reverse the inevitable decline it points more to how out of touch he is that hed even try.

As to unemployment it is higher because so many have dropped off the official unemployment rate because they've been unemployed so long.  The true number is about 11% unemployment and about 17% when you include people working part time jobs because they're unable to find the full time work they're seeking.

Offline the GUN runnerr

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Re: The most important problem here
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2013, 03:36:58 PM »
Good job floofgoffer!  You said everything shy of calling me a narrow minded red neck and I like that.  You seem like the type of dude I could hang and drink with.  Im serious, I enjoy your opinion and I must disagree as your statement proves my point.  You, I, my dauther and her children will not run out of feul.  And thats on just the fuel resources that are located in the u.s.. And I dont know how long it takes a tree farm to grow but Im assuming no more the 5yrs so, we arent in danger of running out of trees.  Those are the two main resources and when you think about it, the way we use them, makes them work against each other.  Fuel kills plants, plants create clean oxygen,  we breath.......I get that.   Me personaly, I make a good living on cars.  But I hate cars and I would ride a horse every fucking day.  But I wouldnt do this in order to save a tree.  And Im not gonna make that change because I dont have to nor want to.  You guys wont eather.  Just sit at a stoplight watching all the cars pass.  Imagine all those people in something else.  Pretty hard huh? 

Your carrying on about how to get the cost of consumer products down by outsourcing labor and sweat shops NAFTA and things of that nature.  well It wont effect a thing in your local comunity or the national avg of a gallon of gas. We will keep going to the pump no matter what.   And while we do, there will be no reason for the price to be lowered.  Hell, why would you lower the price of something if you dont have to.  We are not going to have a nation wide boycot on gasoline and quit consuming that product.  And that would be the only way to help the issue.  I was just reminding you guys of that.  Just pointing out the problem and by no means trying to solve it.  Cant do it........   And I wasnt bringing the environment in to this, just the economy and being able to survive in a world where the value of a dollar means so much. 

Just 1 more thing on this dummy that speaks for us.  He is so fucking stupid that he decided that everyone is broke because there isnt enough money in our country to fill our pocketts.  So this ass hole decided to go and print more money and put more dollars out there to be had/gotten by us.  I thinks it might have been aroud the 20s that this Idea was proven to be a complete destruction of our economy.  Im not picking on your representative by any means, as no one could get this economy on track.  But he is trying SOOOOOO hard to make it worse and we cant do a thing about it.  Im talking about the great depression that we are in that no one wants to admit.  This "National Deficit"  that we hear so much about was probably initialized by the 1st great depression that we had.......and growing over the decades.  We didnt get out of it on our own and we wont this time.  Thats right, we will have to borrow from other countries more and more and more. 

I dont care why I cant afford the things I buy as its out of my hands, and belive me, I do not live above my means.  The prime example of the current economic statement Is in you, you run your check book the same way the country runs the econmic system.  You dont stop and think about what happens when you might not be able to make the 11th payment on that 5,000$ bedroom set that you had to have.  Then, eventualy, your broke and filing chapter 11.  Then your getting financial help from a government that doesnt even own the money that they are lending you.  I end with say ing that the issues are the matters at hand, your not a mountain man living in peace and the way of the land.  Its 2013 and you made this world.  And its rulled by the ammount of money you have in your wallett.


Offline floofgoofer

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Re: The most important problem here
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2013, 04:30:33 AM »
Well I did begrudginly avoid commenting on the hodgie reference.  But do you see the dichotomy in your position?  Saying we are all going to keep going to the pump it's inevitable and a problem, and you wish even yourself didn;t have to do it, then in the next breath saying how environmentalists are dumbshits and alternative fuels are not a solution? 

At some point and in some fashion we have to come together.  I don't have the patience to go into a very long post, but believe me, we all want the same thing, freedom to live our lives and be healthy and prosperous.  It is only the means of getting there that is the debate.  If you spend money at your local grocers, that money gets taxed, spent, and redistributed locally.  If you buy tomatoes from Mexico, sweaters from Malaysia, and gas from Iran, we are funding our demise.  As a nation, not as Democrats or Republicans.

I just know how easy it is to go to extremes, painting the other side as wholly evil or wrong to strengthen ones own position.  Nobody is ever 100% right or wrong (sorry Valjean :P ) and if we don't come together we will fall.  I just wish right wing politics didn't mix social, fiscal, and religious conservatism. or else we might end up on the same page.

where you spend your money does matter, it matters more than your vote, thanks to the Citizens United supreme court decision.  Make it count. 

Offline rdeyd1 573

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Re: The most important problem here
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2013, 09:29:09 AM »
So spending my money on investments like Solyndra is helping throwing away over 500mil on a company that went under in 6months and handed out boneses, and this is not the only one. When will they spend my money wisely and not just however way they want? I buy local in all thing that I have a choice I go to small resturants not national chains same with everything else, I grow a garden, I have never baught a brandnew vehical ever, I buy alot of things from thrift shops and at gerage sells. One cause I am a cheap basterd not that I can't afford it, Two I want to get the most value for my doller, Three if I can get around paying tha man his taxes that's what i am going to do.
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquence;it is force! Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."  -George Washington

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Offline Valjean

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Re: The most important problem here
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2013, 10:27:41 AM »
where you spend your money does matter 

So far as you guys are talking about gas prices you're both right.  The economic facts of the matter are that there's 100% an absolutely direct relationship between gas prices and fuel efficiency of cars.  Even remember reading a case study on it in grad school stats class.  There's just a lag of about 5 years.  So the higher gas prices go the more fuel efficient cars become.  Its a simple matter of free market forces driving innovation.

As to American oil consumption we will be a net energy exporter by 2019 thanks to the reduction of government regulations on oil exploration.  So by 2020 we will be exporting oil.  (I.E. we will be producing more than we use as a country).  So OPEC can go suck a dick.  Beyond that though did you know Russia is actually the #1 oil producing nation in the world.  Damn Russians ;) 

Biggest demand for fuel burning resources though is in the rising manufacturing industries in the orient, not automobile consumption.  Remember oil is only about 1/3 of the fossil fuels consumed.  Sure its used 2/3 for vehicles and 1/3 for industrial usage.  But the other 66% of the energy pie (coal, natural gas, nuke, renewables) are mainly industrial usage.  Making cars more fuel efficient really doesn't have much impact at all on the overall energy markets.  People talk big shit about it & it comes up all the time, but thats also because its a daily thing for the average person so that's all they understand.  The real issues of energy: fuel consumption, natural resources, pollution, yadda yadda are industrial.

FUBAR, you said something very interesting & I like it.  If you didn't drive a car you'd ride a horse.  I use this as an example when I talk with people who are against technology & innovation.  Yeah I know, seems surprising, but believe it or not there are liberal economists who like to make claims that technology has been a net negative effect on mankind.  They always use smog from cars as an example.  This created new pollution we otherwise wouldn't have had, or so the argument goes.  And I always tell them they are looking at the matter in 1 dimension, as though there wasn't already pollution before.  Imagine what NYC would look (and smell) like today, with today's population, if everyone was riding a horse instead of driving a car (seedy)



But on the subject of air quality (and regulation protecting said quality) go ask those people in Beijing how it feels to wear breathing masks to ride their bike to work. 

Valjean FTW!!  (just fucking with you Floof)

If China wants to use government funding to subsidize importing clean air into the US by way of manufacturing steel in China & driving down the price of it then that's fine.  Sure it hurts our steel industry who can't compete but that's only 1 special interest group.  The entire nation benefits from both cheap steel and clean air. 
« Last Edit: February 18, 2013, 10:38:17 AM by Valjean »